How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:29 am  

At eight oclock tonight an awful lot of you thought we were almost unbeatable and that battering Salford was a given. Many of you even suggested fielding an almost all-academy lineup, such was the ease of the task in hand. Our full strength side struggles there a lot, so one featuring a few kids is guaranteed to. Oh how I smiled when Salford ran in the tries tonight against such a feable showing, seeing the shocked and stunned faces.

Which bring me onto the ridiculous fawning over the 'kids' in our squad, if you can call it a squad. When you put one young player amongst 16 senior players they can be made to look good by those around them and the confidence it provides. If you put a lot of those kids in together its an almost guaranteed defeat, as tonight proved.

Don't get me wrong about the current crop of kids, I'm sure one or two (Literally) will make it in SL but the majority will disappear into anonymity very quickly. They are not the second coming and they are not anywhere near sufficient to cope with the losses of senior players over recent seasons. Saints recruitment policies are championed on here as you fawn embarassingly over da kids, but it's probably going to cost us dearly yet again this season. The senior players are stale and the kids aren't up to SL when used in anything other than near isolation with the senior players.

With Longy AND KC out next week we ARE going to lose to Warrington. Oh what a shock for you who saw us as being untouchable and on our way to the double. Truth is our squad is so lightweight any injuries hit us hard and we'd better pray those two are back in action for the semi final or it's goodbye to our run in the cup.

I wonder how many would bet on us winning a trophy this season now? I bet the odds have tumbled somewhat.

Do we all still agree that not signing anyone is such a good idea?

Re: How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:32 am  

Saddened! wrote:

At eight oclock tonight an awful lot of you thought we were almost unbeatable and that battering Salford was a given. Many of you even suggested fielding an almost all-academy lineup, such was the ease of the task in hand. Our full strength side struggles there a lot, so one featuring a few kids is guaranteed to. Oh how I smiled when Salford ran in the tries tonight against such a feable showing, seeing the shocked and stunned faces.

Which bring me onto the ridiculous fawning over the 'kids' in our squad, if you can call it a squad. When you put one young player amongst 16 senior players they can be made to look good by those around them and the confidence it provides. If you put a lot of those kids in together its an almost guaranteed defeat, as tonight proved.

Don't get me wrong about the current crop of kids, I'm sure one or two (Literally) will make it in SL but the majority will disappear into anonymity very quickly. They are not the second coming and they are not anywhere near sufficient to cope with the losses of senior players over recent seasons. Saints recruitment policies are championed on here as you fawn embarassingly over da kids, but it's probably going to cost us dearly yet again this season. The senior players are stale and the kids aren't up to SL when used in anything other than near isolation with the senior players.

With Longy AND KC out next week we ARE going to lose to Warrington. Oh what a shock for you who saw us as being untouchable and on our way to the double. Truth is our squad is so lightweight any injuries hit us hard and we'd better pray those two are back in action for the semi final or it's goodbye to our run in the cup.

I wonder how many would bet on us winning a trophy this season now? I bet the odds have tumbled somewhat.

Do we all still agree that not signing anyone is such a good idea?

Which is what I've been saying for quite some time, and have been accused by many of being just a Wigan troll.

What I've always said is that kids will give you enthusiasm, but too many in the team can cause problems.

Re: How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:19 am  

Saddened! wrote:

At eight oclock tonight an awful lot of you thought we were almost unbeatable and that battering Salford was a given. Many of you even suggested fielding an almost all-academy lineup, such was the ease of the task in hand. Our full strength side struggles there a lot, so one featuring a few kids is guaranteed to. Oh how I smiled when Salford ran in the tries tonight against such a feable showing, seeing the shocked and stunned faces.

Just focussing on this point as I can't be arsed starting yet another debate about the kids at this moment in time.

I think you need to re read the threads posted here prior to the game tonight. You will see that very few people claimed we were unbeatable or that we would beat never mind batter Salford. A quick look on the 19 man squad thread should demonstrate this with only Paul Bate (a noob) and Saint Simon even remotely suggesting that we wouldn't struggle against Salford.

Whilst it was a pretty big assumption by some that we'd win i'd suggest this is as much down to confidence than sheer arrogance, even if that confidence was misguided or simply bravado in the face of us losing key players.

Those that did suggest we would win could even argue that their OPINION was based primarily on the relative league positions of the two teams and as such it can be suggested that their opinions were not arrogance but based on the higher probability of us winning than losing as the top of the league side who has just won 16 away games on the bounce.

My point is that you generalise considerably in your point, and as is all too easy to do on here - saw only what you wanted to when reading threads - remembering only the few that displayed confidence in their side to do the business, and ignoring those who suggested we might not find it easy. This is exactly what some supporters of our rivals do and run with it considering all Saints fans to be cocky and arrogant.

Your posts clearly mark you as a 'glass half empty' poster and though there's nothing wrong with that, not everyone takes the same dark outlook/attitude.

I for one still have faith in the team to bring some silverwear home and if I had any money to, I would gladly put some down that it happens.

As nice as it is to see the trophy cabinet full every season I recognize that the people in charge at Saints have a long term plan and though putting faith into the kids at this stage is a risk, it is a calculated one that we are in a lucky enough position to do now compared to other teams and more importantly one that we consider necessary for us to be able to remain competitive as the rules regarding players/franchising change over the next few years.

Re: How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:26 am  

Tony Stark wrote:

Your posts clearly mark you as a 'glass half empty' poster

Me?

Any, before anyone mentions the word 'knee jerk' my post was meant to mock the general air of total-over-confidence, and I fully understand that I have used sweeping generalisations, as they are more fun


We're still clearly one of the top sides, but our squad is so small that it makes it horrendously difficult to win both trophies and runs the risk of us not winning any. The policy of three or four senior players leaving and being replaced with 1 incoming senior player is questionable. No harm in promoting youth of course, but I feel we've totally over-egged it and that we may well suffer from it rather than thrive as most feel we will.

: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:39 am  

A "general air of overconfidence"?

Don't be projecting your pre-jo-dices onto others. As has been pointed out - very few people seem overconfident. Two seasons of league titles and no SL trophy kind of gets you that way.

: Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:46 am  

I agree with most that saddened says at the top of the page apart from IMO we can still do the double and let's not cut our wrists because we lost to Salford. Don't forget they won at Leeds and hull.

What I do agree is that 1 or maybe 2 young lads playing in a good saints team makes it a lot easier than when we field 4 or 5. I can't beleive how carried away certain people are getting with these kids. It's unreal!!!

Fair enough they have held there own and not looked out of place but for some to suggest we could field them all and still be best team they are living in dreamland.

Don't get me wrong I'd love all them to make up are team for next 10 years but IMO we will be lucky to have 3 still playing for saints in 2 years time.

Re: How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:49 am  

Saddened! wrote:

With Longy AND KC out next week we ARE going to lose to Warrington.

Oh well, we might as well not turn up then. Who wants my ticket for £17?

Re: How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:34 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Oh how I smiled when Salford ran in the tries tonight

Are you sure you're a Saint fan?

Regardless of other fans attitudes to our club, I can never take pleasure in us losing and it's a very odd kind of "fan" that can.

Re: How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:12 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Me?

Any, before anyone mentions the word 'knee jerk' my post was meant to mock the general air of total-over-confidence, and I fully understand that I have used sweeping generalisations, as they are more fun


We're still clearly one of the top sides, but our squad is so small that it makes it horrendously difficult to win both trophies and runs the risk of us not winning any. The policy of three or four senior players leaving and being replaced with 1 incoming senior player is questionable. No harm in promoting youth of course, but I feel we've totally over-egged it and that we may well suffer from it rather than thrive as most feel we will.

Wigan did that in the year they signed Danny Orr, got rid of 6 senior players through retirement or transfer. I had a rant at the fans forum that year and it fell on deaf ears.

If you want to look at Wigans deep rooted problems, then that is a good starting point.

Of course, I wont be complaining if it happens to you men

Re: How quickly the worm doth turneth : Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:24 pm  

Harry Pinner wrote:

Are you sure you're a Saint fan?

Regardless of other fans attitudes to our club, I can never take pleasure in us losing and it's a very odd kind of "fan" that can.

quite right, are we sure saddened is a saints fan?