Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am  

Has anyone else noticed that our best rugby has played when Poaching was Tony's No.2? When Poaching was at KR that's when their best Rugby was being played (Obviously barring last season). Now he's at Salford and they're playing their best rugby.

Coincidence? Or is Agar in fact dragging the club down? I wouldn't like to think that Tony Smith would idly sit by whilst Agar coached the team in a sub-standard manner. but could it be the assistant has more input than we would like to think?

Discuss.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 12:28 pm  

I would hope the club reviews all a aspects of its business to establish how it can improve. The playing side should include all aspects of coaching, fitness and conditioning, all of which could be improved. We are not playing the good attractive rugby which excites the crowds, and the fitness and especially the conditioning this season is a worry - look at how many hamstring injuries we have had so far.
Another area is player recruitment, other teams seem to pick up good quality players at reasonable cost whereas we have been burned by high cost especially oversees players who have either not contributed or have not been fit enough.
Junior recruitment is an area where we seem to punch below our weight. It has improved recently with a number of good local boys coming through but clubs like Wigan, Saints, Leeds have a more successful system.
I think we have a lot right, the facilities and player welfare are improved,
Coming back to coaching, top teams do refresh on a regular basis. Even though Ferguson was at United for many years he cycled a number of top class coaches working under him bringing in fresh and new ideas. So perhaps Agar and Smith need changing, however, if it was me it wouldn't be both at the same time. Get a new team under Smith, improve the coaching, fitness and conditioning team, player recruitment and junior development.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 1:00 pm  

Aren't you putting Smith on a pedestal there ? He has recruited all these substandard assistants who are not doing the biz with the players.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 1:21 pm  

Agar is the main coach on training...following the huge barrage of unhappy fans in 2015, TS took the heat of Agar by dumping the suit for T'shirts and a tracky.
TS still handles the team the same, just that we now see TS wearing training kits and sipping water to look hands on.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 1:22 pm  

Wolf Hall wrote:

I would hope the club reviews all a aspects of its business to establish how it can improve. The playing side should include all aspects of coaching, fitness and conditioning, all of which could be improved. We are not playing the good attractive rugby which excites the crowds, and the fitness and especially the conditioning this season is a worry - look at how many hamstring injuries we have had so far.
Another area is player recruitment, other teams seem to pick up good quality players at reasonable cost whereas we have been burned by high cost especially oversees players who have either not contributed or have not been fit enough.
Junior recruitment is an area where we seem to punch below our weight. It has improved recently with a number of good local boys coming through but clubs like Wigan, Saints, Leeds have a more successful system.
I think we have a lot right, the facilities and player welfare are improved,
Coming back to coaching, top teams do refresh on a regular basis. Even though Ferguson was at United for many years he cycled a number of top class coaches working under him bringing in fresh and new ideas. So perhaps Agar and Smith need changing, however, if it was me it wouldn't be both at the same time. Get a new team under Smith, improve the coaching, fitness and conditioning team, player recruitment and junior development.

You mention we get a lot right, I'm interested in how we would score us out of 10 in these areas :

1) Results
2) Playing style.
3) Resilience and winning attitude.
4) Effectiveness of recruitment
5) Development of young players
6) Squad balance and succession planning.
7) Fitness
Injury rehabilitation
9) Training facilities
10) Player welfare / HR
11) Rugby Management Structure

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 3:03 pm  

You don't give a time frame for my view to your exam questions. At the moment I would say 6 out of 10 overall in my uninformed position. Give me a week of full access to the club and I would give you a different answer possibly.
All good companies review their performance and no doubt Warrington do too. We tend to get decent marks from RL reviews but there will be areas we can improve.
For me key areas requiring strengthening are coaching, all aspects of Under 19's and Reserves, recruitment.

Perhaps you could give us your markings out of 10 for your own questions?

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 4:02 pm  

Wolf Hall wrote:

Perhaps you could give us your markings out of 10 for your own questions?

OK fair enough. From a purely outsider point of view

1) Results - 3.3/10 to reflect our P12 W4.

2) Playing style - 4/10 - some nice flashes in the last 2 games but we are dull in the main. We have one 5th tackle option which is a kick to the corner. A throwback to the Briers/King/Monaghan days. We top the error charts across the entire league which may indicate we are playing fast exciting rugby like Cas, but when you see we have the 3rd lowest tries scored it paints a dismal picture.

3) Resilience and winning attitude - 5/10 we did show spirit against Widnes, Hudds and Wakefield to not "lose". Not sure this translates into a winning culture of excellence. Confidence appears brittle.

4) Effectiveness of recruitment - 2/10. Squad appears low on quality in key areas. I dispute this "high quality squad on paper" argument. Too many are just bang average. Sims, Cooper, Hughes, Evans, Dyer, G King and the like. Halfback pairing perfunctory at best. Would question value for money on certain signings which have gobbled up the cap. Heavily dependent on certain players who when they are missing from the side it shows (Ratchford, Clarke, Hill).

5) Development of young players - 5/10. Some positives with Currie, Patton and Philbin, maybe Livett but nowhere near Wigan and Leeds who would score a 10.

6) Squad balance and succession planning 5/10 - Never recovered from the mass exodus of Briers, Morley, Carvel, Hodgson, Monaghan for me. No enforcer and I don't think Hill is the motivational and inspiring style of captain we need (compare to Sinfield/O'Loughlin). No out and out pace across the side.

7) Fitness 9/10 - I don't think we have looked like we are blowing any more than any other team.

Injury rehabilitation - 4/10 - Bit of a worry. We have had 2 players (King and Westerman) who were out injured, returned and are out again with same injury (King - Hamstring, Westerman - Neck). King is 10 weeks out from an injury in training.

9) Training facilities - 10/10 - No excuses here from what we are told. Warm weather training and trips to Australia every 2 years.

10) Player welfare / HR - ? / 10. Don't know. We seem to be sympathetic and understanding of players in times of need and allow players to prepare for a time after RL (Hill and plumbing business etc). But there do seem to be "favourites".

11) Rugby Management Structure - 7/10 In experience with Briers, and I cannot overlook the coincidence of Agar and our rank playing style. But Smith is seasoned and one of 3 coaches in SL who has won a SL GF as coach and was coach during our best spell in a generation 2010-12.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Wed May 03, 2017 6:41 pm  

Would agree, semi agree with most of that analysis.
So how do we improve on the poor areas starting with those that would have the biggest effect soonest?
2 and 3 will look after 1 so unless we have super coach already lined up to slot in right now we need the present coaches with the team to do what has been achieved in the past. Meanwhile develop the other areas which need improving. A lot of players off contract at the end of the season, the succession plan with the slightly inflated salary cap and Marquee Player allowance could be used. Young player development is a mystery to me, we seem to be behind a number of other clubs, don't understand why, that's why I suggested a review. Are we too choosy, offer poor contracts, got a bad name, just don't know. We need tomorrow's future stars queueing up for us. How do we do that?

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Thu May 04, 2017 3:40 pm  

MikeyWire wrote:

If we lose on Friday which we are very capable of doing, and Leeds lose at Catalan which isn't impossible at all. It's a 4 point gap to 8th and the middle 8's looking likely.

I think you'll be ok for top 8, the news on Johnstone's injury is a big blow for Wakey, and I now expect them to join Huddersfield, Widnes and Leigh in the middle 8.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Thu May 04, 2017 4:50 pm  

Without stating the obvious the next set of games will be crucial. They look tough to me.

Saints (Home)
Wigan (Magic)
Leeds (Away)
Salford (Home)