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   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Our youth system, does it hold us back?
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:17 am  
Aboveusonlypie wrote:
I think you are missing Matty Smith and Blake Green from your list here.

Both were good enough to win us the double and play pretty significant roles. They would get in most Super League sides quite easily. Green has just been signed as a starter for Melbourne, and I would have thought that Craig Bellamy is a good judge of a player. We haven't half missed him since his injury.

Smith has improved out of all recognition these past two years. Mentioning him as the best scrum half in Super League might be saying something about the overall standard of the competition and that may be true but that is a seperate argument. He made the dream team last season and this year only Walsh is better.

You might also add Flower to your list, again he would get into most sides.

They were all excellent signings. And the jury is still out on Pettybourne, Clubb and Sarginson. So overall the club have bought well recently. Only Dudson and James have struggled really.


I was going to say that Flower, Smith and Green should all be in that list.

Pettybourne seems to earn praise from half our fans and criticism from the other half, without really doing enough to justify either as yet. Must admit I think Tautai will be a better impact player off the bench and I can't really see room in the 17 for both of them. Clubb has been excellent playing at prop after it became very obvious very quickly he was not a second row. Sarginson has played well although it's difficult to assign him to a position, similar story with Gelling.

Of all the signings we have made the only real disappointment for me has been Dudson. Despite improving his fitness levels he's never really kicked on to become a top quality front rower, and he makes too many errors and gives away too many silly penalties. Lauaki was an odd signing but he didn't do as badly as some make out before leaving under a cloud of off-field problems. Powell was a bit of PR stunt that might have paid off if he wasn't a complete clown. James was only ever going to be used when we had injuries and has generally performed adequately whilst at times being way off the pace.

Not every promsing junior is going to make it as a Wigan, or even SL first teamer. And equally with the SC in place not every player we bring in will be a superstar. We've made a number of long-term project signings in recent years with the thought that getting them to buy in to our culture and work hard would get them to reach their potential. There are question marks still over some of these but others have paid off. I have been very critical of some of our signings/non-signings in the past few years (no direct replacement for Hansen/oversubscribed with props and lack of backrowers/inexperienced left edge after Carmont and Richards left/no quality replacement being sought for Goulding etc), but when you look at our record whilst we've had this recent transfer policy it's difficult to argue with.
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:27 pm  
Just being pedantic I suppose, I'd add Bateman to the list of getting into other sides. He's been excellent since joining us and whoever sought him out and signed him deserves great praise IMO.
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:29 am  
Aboveusonlypie wrote:
I think you are missing Matty Smith and Blake Green from your list here.

Both were good enough to win us the double and play pretty significant roles.


I don't think I am and the double winning side had several other players in it who were top class or certainly better than all bar Taylor, Bowen and Batemen from my list above. I think the three I mentioned as to who other clubs would envy being Taylor, Bowen and Bateman would attract interest whereas the rest range from good pro's to average or even pretty poor (James) and would not. Bar those three I can't see any clubs trying to prise them away from Wigan before their contract is up.

They make take the likes of Flower if out of contract but I think the reality is they, are as I said, a group of players who fall into the good pro and lesser standard. I doubt any of them would find a home in another top four side.

The point though is regardless of our opinions on how good these players are, we do rely on a lot of players we sign. We bang on about how great our youth system is but we have a lot of our top 25 players sourced from outside the club and IMO some of them are pretty average players to boot.
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:03 pm  
DaveO wrote:
I don't think I am and the double winning side had several other players in it who were top class or certainly better than all bar Taylor, Bowen and Batemen from my list above. I think the three I mentioned as to who other clubs would envy being Taylor, Bowen and Bateman would attract interest whereas the rest range from good pro's to average or even pretty poor (James) and would not. Bar those three I can't see any clubs trying to prise them away from Wigan before their contract is up.

They make take the likes of Flower if out of contract but I think the reality is they, are as I said, a group of players who fall into the good pro and lesser standard. I doubt any of them would find a home in another top four side.

The point though is regardless of our opinions on how good these players are, we do rely on a lot of players we sign. We bang on about how great our youth system is but we have a lot of our top 25 players sourced from outside the club and IMO some of them are pretty average players to boot.


like who? in your opinion btw
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:30 am  
Pieman wrote:
like who? in your opinion btw


Like who what? And btw, it's obvious in discussions like this it is everyone is expressing an opinion so no real need to remind us all.

We have 12 players the club signed who figure regularly in the first team. We rely heavily on players signed not brought through by the club. This is obviously true.

I don't have a problem with it particularly when good players are signed such as Taylor and Bateman as I have never believed we could have an all Wigan produced side. What I am pointing out though is given we have so many players signed from elsewhere our youth system certainly does not stop us signing players as we clearly do and that given some are pretty average our youth system hasn't yet removed the need to sign such players.
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:30 pm  
DaveO wrote:
Like who what? And btw, it's obvious in discussions like this it is everyone is expressing an opinion so no real need to remind us all.

We have 12 players the club signed who figure regularly in the first team. We rely heavily on players signed not brought through by the club. This is obviously true.

I don't have a problem with it particularly when good players are signed such as Taylor and Bateman as I have never believed we could have an all Wigan produced side. What I am pointing out though is given we have so many players signed from elsewhere our youth system certainly does not stop us signing players as we clearly do and that given some are pretty average our youth system hasn't yet removed the need to sign such players.


I know thats why I asked for your opinion

also you know we had bateman on scholarship...
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:51 pm  
Remember back in the early-mid 2000s Wigan weren't afraid to move on young players like Robinson, Briscoe, Brown, Aspinwall, and be in the market for blue chip signings like Vaealiki, Moran, O'Neill and Ainscough.

It seems you have lost this ruthless edge in recent years.
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:55 pm  
sally cinnamon wrote:
Remember back in the early-mid 2000s Wigan weren't afraid to move on young players like Robinson, Briscoe, Brown, Aspinwall, and be in the market for blue chip signings like Vaealiki, Moran, O'Neill and Ainscough.

It seems you have lost this ruthless edge in recent years.


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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:13 pm  
I just don't get this thread. The salary cap makes a hard limit that a big signing breaks. What this year shows is that a strong squad is better than one or two superstars.

Let's say that Sam was able to command £500k is salary. Would NOT signing him hold Wigan back? Or the reduction in squad size matter more?
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Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:33 pm  
without our youth system we would be paying over inflated salaries to journeymen to put a team on the field and be in position 9-12 in the league
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