FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Marquee Player Rule
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach6124No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 10 200420 years333rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
3rd Oct 24 11:5924th Jul 24 09:07LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Still at the Top
Signature
23 - 20 - 4

Warrington led 16-2 in Saturday's Grand Final, but their joy was short-lived as Wigan roared back to win the Super League title and extend the Wire's 58-year wait to be champions

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:39 pm  
jools wrote:
"let them eat cake" attitude. Now That's laughable


Diddums.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star1979No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 02 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
17th Jan 18 16:0017th Jan 18 14:14LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940)

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:30 pm  
Orrell Lad wrote:
Tough shiit. Widnes, Cas and Wakefield's backroom staff need to work harder on their commercials so that if/when they produce the next AF/KC, they have got the £ to keep him.

If another club didn't pick them off, Yawnion would. What's worse?

Simple capitalism yes.

Whilst you are espousing 'simple capitalism', you do realise that without checks and balances (like a salary cap) such a system leads to monopoly don't you? I say again-

Would you be happy playing a round robin against Saints and Leeds ad infinitum?

Even that bastion of traditional capitalism the Premier League tried to have a geographical ban on recruiting youngsters so that a club could only recruit within a 25 mile radius. Even they realised the inherent unfairness of allowance the Man Utds and Chelsea's to do as they please.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach6124No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 10 200420 years333rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
3rd Oct 24 11:5924th Jul 24 09:07LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Still at the Top
Signature
23 - 20 - 4

Warrington led 16-2 in Saturday's Grand Final, but their joy was short-lived as Wigan roared back to win the Super League title and extend the Wire's 58-year wait to be champions

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:00 pm  
It may well lead to a monopoly where only a handful of clubs win the top prize. Oh, wait a minute..!

I haven't advocated removal of checks and balances such as the salary cap, so I'm not sure why you've directed that question at me. Your scenario of round robin games with only Saints and Leeds is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion of the marquee player rule.

Interesting to note that Nigel Wood was thrilled the rule got passed and the RFL have wanted it implemented for some time!
Geoff 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman5443
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
26th Aug 18 23:269th Aug 18 20:38LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:05 pm  
jools wrote:
I fail to see how this ruling brings up the standard of rugby league.

They turned it around because they had the history, staff and cash, to (cheat) to do so. If Wigan had been bottom half of the table for the previous 15 seasons and won nothing- do you think their ability to "turn it around" would be the same?
"Failure to compete" is an easy phrase to come up with when you've not had to fight to become competitive for years. How much easier is it for Wigan to secure sponsorship money, Wigan to secure players, wigan to secure the best coaching staff, wigan to secure the best marketing staff, Wigan to secure the best back room staff, Wigan to entice the best youngsters to their club and keep them than those you are accusing of "failing to compete" It's not a level playing field so it's not "failure to compete" it's failure to have the same benefits as others in order to compete!!!
If the RFL had gone ahead with their draft system it may have been different.


You're talking as if being a "big club" is a permanent thing. Little clubs can become big, and vice versa, given the right situation, it's by no means a closed shop - just look at league tables over, say, 10 year gaps, to see once small clubs like wire and hudds becoming big and once big clubs like Bradford collapsing.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star1979No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 02 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
17th Jan 18 16:0017th Jan 18 14:14LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940)

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:36 pm  
Geoff wrote:
You're talking as if being a "big club" is a permanent thing. Little clubs can become big, and vice versa, given the right situation, it's by no means a closed shop - just look at league tables over, say, 10 year gaps, to see once small clubs like wire and hudds becoming big and once big clubs like Bradford collapsing.

I think that's a very good point. And little clubs can only become big clubs if they still exist. Therefore a case against the free market!!!
RankPostsTeam
International Star2795No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 20 201113 years310th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
30th Aug 24 16:124th Nov 23 09:34LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:29 pm  
[quote="jools"]I fail to see how this ruling brings up the standard of rugby league.

Seriously? You don't think that by being able to attract and retain better players the standard of rugby won't improve?

Better players means better rugby. They play better and it's good for young lads to be around them!
DaveO 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Moderator14395No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years336th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th May 24 14:0028th May 22 23:44LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Chester
Signature
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Moderator

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:24 pm  
Aboveusonlypie wrote:
In part yes I do. I am in favour of a salary cap. Actually I think most fair minded people are if they take the off the blinkers of supporting just one club.

However the Marquee Signing rule is really only tinkering with the cap, and as such I'm not against it. I have posted that earlier, maybe you missed it.

I understand your points, but the logical outcome of your position is that smaller clubs overreach themselves, cease to compete and ultimately go out of business. Rugby League can't be run on those principles in the same way that Professional Football can, because there just aren't enough clubs.

Do you want to see Wigan play Leeds, Saints and Wire on a round robin basis throughout the season? Or even worse do you want to see Wigan cast in the role of Glasgow Celtic with no competitors? (Or even worse than that Wigan as Glasgow Rangers?)


We already do. Despite the odd self inflicted disaster when it gets to the business end it is the same suspects competing for the trophies. The salary cap set at the level it is has done nothing to alter that.

Rugby League doesn't exist in isolation and yet has basically had a wage freeze for well over a decade.

That is incompatible with the concept of professional sport because as we have seen once a sport gets some money behind it as RL in OZ has and RU here, players wages take off leaving our players behind The players in the NRL and RU quite rightly expect a fair share of the pie.

Pro-cappers here rarely mention the players livelihoods. The seen to think because Cas and Wakey can't afford a cap bigger than what it is, it is OK for all the players at every club to have their wages held down. Why?

I think the salary cap in the UK is self defeating myself. Here in the UK it is in effect a lowest common denominator. It is set too low so as to accommodate the poorest clubs and it means clubs who could afford to pay the players more can't so there is always a chance the best players will leave but the poorest clubs remain the poorest clubs and least likely to win a trophy. It serves no useful purpose and who knows how many young players don't even bother trying to make a career out of it given the wages for the average player are effectively low.

In Australia it is not a lowest common denominator at all. It is high enough so the players can earn high salaries yet it will prevent one club outspending another.

With the Sky deal all our clubs now have the full £1.8m salary cap paid. They got about £1.1m before IIRC so why not increase the cap to £2.5m? The clubs still have to find the same as they used to, £0.7m. If they can't do that they really have no place in a professional league.

HKR look a better prospect these days not because of the salary cap but because they have been given the money to pay right up to it and they are spending it IMO. Why other clubs still don't want things like the marquee player or the cap raised when they have also just been handed £1.8m on a plate I really don't know.

Sooner or later the cap will have to go up not just by minor tinkering by things like the marquee player rule. It can't stay as it is and RL protect itself never mind compete with the NRL and RU.

For it to go up we need more money in the sport or at least going to the top clubs. The Aussie clubs don't earn their income as such, most of it comes from the TV rights and they don't divide it between 26 clubs either. We should do the same. The SL clubs should share the TV money (cap goes up to £3.2m then I believe) and we should give up on the false idea we can have a 26 team pro league. We can't. We can't afford it.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star1979No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 02 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
17th Jan 18 16:0017th Jan 18 14:14LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940)

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:15 pm  
DaveO wrote:
We already do. Despite the odd self inflicted disaster when it gets to the business end it is the same suspects competing for the trophies. The salary cap set at the level it is has done nothing to alter that.

Rugby League doesn't exist in isolation and yet has basically had a wage freeze for well over a decade.

That is incompatible with the concept of professional sport because as we have seen once a sport gets some money behind it as RL in OZ has and RU here, players wages take off leaving our players behind The players in the NRL and RU quite rightly expect a fair share of the pie.

Pro-cappers here rarely mention the players livelihoods. The seen to think because Cas and Wakey can't afford a cap bigger than what it is, it is OK for all the players at every club to have their wages held down. Why?

I think the salary cap in the UK is self defeating myself. Here in the UK it is in effect a lowest common denominator. It is set too low so as to accommodate the poorest clubs and it means clubs who could afford to pay the players more can't so there is always a chance the best players will leave but the poorest clubs remain the poorest clubs and least likely to win a trophy. It serves no useful purpose and who knows how many young players don't even bother trying to make a career out of it given the wages for the average player are effectively low.

In Australia it is not a lowest common denominator at all. It is high enough so the players can earn high salaries yet it will prevent one club outspending another.

With the Sky deal all our clubs now have the full £1.8m salary cap paid. They got about £1.1m before IIRC so why not increase the cap to £2.5m? The clubs still have to find the same as they used to, £0.7m. If they can't do that they really have no place in a professional league.

HKR look a better prospect these days not because of the salary cap but because they have been given the money to pay right up to it and they are spending it IMO. Why other clubs still don't want things like the marquee player or the cap raised when they have also just been handed £1.8m on a plate I really don't know.

Sooner or later the cap will have to go up not just by minor tinkering by things like the marquee player rule. It can't stay as it is and RL protect itself never mind compete with the NRL and RU.

For it to go up we need more money in the sport or at least going to the top clubs. The Aussie clubs don't earn their income as such, most of it comes from the TV rights and they don't divide it between 26 clubs either. We should do the same. The SL clubs should share the TV money (cap goes up to £3.2m then I believe) and we should give up on the false idea we can have a 26 team pro league. We can't. We can't afford it.

The tone of debate on here from many posters (though not necessarily yourself) has been - To hell with the poorer clubs we can do without them, we are being held back by them etc.

Some have even said they don't care if the smaller clubs go out of business they couldn't care less.

We've been here before. I'm not going to rehash this debate. It feels a bit like 'Groundhog Day' :BLAH:
DaveO 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Moderator14395No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years336th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th May 24 14:0028th May 22 23:44LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Chester
Signature
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Moderator

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:12 pm  
Aboveusonlypie wrote:
The tone of debate on here from many posters (though not necessarily yourself) has been - To hell with the poorer clubs we can do without them, we are being held back by them etc.

Some have even said they don't care if the smaller clubs go out of business they couldn't care less.

We've been here before. I'm not going to rehash this debate. It feels a bit like 'Groundhog Day' :BLAH:


I presume you mean by smaller clubs going out of business you mean smaller SL clubs going bust trying to keep pace with richer ones if the salary cap was raised.

I don't think any such club has to go out of business because if the Sky money was allocated as it should be in my view, to the SL clubs, they would be well off and well able to compete.

That said I don't think you should just hand over a few million quid just because a club is currently in the SL. We then get back to licensing and clubs being let into the "SL club" based on off-field criteria.
Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 1605 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Wigan Warriors


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
Seeking favourite images from grounds - past or present
retrosports
1
Recent
Questions for Ste Mills
Jacko1500mm
6
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3s
Recruitment rumours and links
Or thane
3179
6s
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Emagdnim13
10104
13s
Fev H Play Off
Bully_Boxer
21
17s
Leigh it is
moto748
100
20s
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
62588
22s
Questions for Ste Mills
Jacko1500mm
6
31s
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Cokey
12
37s
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
morleys_deck
24
52s
Play-off semi-final
Prince Buste
22
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40182
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Seeking favourite images from grounds - past or present
retrosports
1
TODAY
Grand final Tickets
NickyKiss
7
TODAY
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Grand Final Place
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Barstool Pre
1
TODAY
Questions for Ste Mills
Jacko1500mm
6
TODAY
Decision on the field
MR FRISK
17
TODAY
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
morleys_deck
24
TODAY
Worst semi
Barstool Pre
5
TODAY
2025 TRANSFER AND RETENTION RUMOURS
Tony Fax
3
TODAY
Sam Burgess
morleys_deck
9
TODAY
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fightback To Secure Grand Final Spot
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Squad 2025
Nat (Rugby_A
1
TODAY
Tonights match v HKR
Or thane
92
TODAY
Isa 1 year extension
Trainman
11
TODAY
2024 IMG gradings
Victor
3
TODAY
Championship Awards
FIL
10
TODAY
Season tickets
Ilkley Fax
10
TODAY
Best Semi
sir adrian m
13
TODAY
Ben Condon is a Leopard
Jack Gaskell
1
TODAY
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Cokey
12
TODAY
Any decent RL reads for me hols
norbellini
1
TODAY
Championship Play Off Final
PopTart
3
TODAY
Man of Steel
matt_wire
8
TODAY
Guest appearance
AgbriggAmble
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
168
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
277
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
818
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
866
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1251
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1474
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1211
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1620
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1320
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1556
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1733
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2071
Salford Close In On The Play O..
1687
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1718
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
2045
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Sun 6th Oct
L1
15:00
Keighley-Hunslet
WSL2024
16:30
York V-St.HelensW
NRL
09:30
Melbourne-Penrith
Sat 12th Oct
SL
18:00
Hull KR-Wigan
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 5th Oct
CH 29 York27-10Widnes
SL 29 Wigan38-0Leigh
Fri 4th Oct
SL 29 Hull KR10-8Warrington
Sun 29th Sep
L1 25 Rochdale26-46Hunslet
CH 28 Barrow24-26Widnes
CH 28 Bradford50-0Swinton
CH 28 Dewsbury28-8Sheffield
CH28 Wakefield72-6Doncaster
CH 28 Whitehaven23-20Halifax
CH 28 York16-6Featherstone
Sat 28th Sep
CH 28 Toulouse64-16Batley
SL 28 Warrington23-22St.Helens
NRL 30 Penrith26-6Cronulla
Fri 27th Sep
SL 28 Salford6-14Leigh
NRL 30 Melbourne48-18Sydney
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 28 759 336 423 46
Hull KR 28 729 335 394 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
Bradford 26 678 387 291 34
York 28 682 479 203 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 26 622 500 122 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
Seeking favourite images from grounds - past or present
retrosports
1
Recent
Questions for Ste Mills
Jacko1500mm
6
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3s
Recruitment rumours and links
Or thane
3179
6s
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Emagdnim13
10104
13s
Fev H Play Off
Bully_Boxer
21
17s
Leigh it is
moto748
100
20s
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
62588
22s
Questions for Ste Mills
Jacko1500mm
6
31s
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Cokey
12
37s
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
morleys_deck
24
52s
Play-off semi-final
Prince Buste
22
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40182
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Seeking favourite images from grounds - past or present
retrosports
1
TODAY
Grand final Tickets
NickyKiss
7
TODAY
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Grand Final Place
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Barstool Pre
1
TODAY
Questions for Ste Mills
Jacko1500mm
6
TODAY
Decision on the field
MR FRISK
17
TODAY
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
morleys_deck
24
TODAY
Worst semi
Barstool Pre
5
TODAY
2025 TRANSFER AND RETENTION RUMOURS
Tony Fax
3
TODAY
Sam Burgess
morleys_deck
9
TODAY
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fightback To Secure Grand Final Spot
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Squad 2025
Nat (Rugby_A
1
TODAY
Tonights match v HKR
Or thane
92
TODAY
Isa 1 year extension
Trainman
11
TODAY
2024 IMG gradings
Victor
3
TODAY
Championship Awards
FIL
10
TODAY
Season tickets
Ilkley Fax
10
TODAY
Best Semi
sir adrian m
13
TODAY
Ben Condon is a Leopard
Jack Gaskell
1
TODAY
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Cokey
12
TODAY
Any decent RL reads for me hols
norbellini
1
TODAY
Championship Play Off Final
PopTart
3
TODAY
Man of Steel
matt_wire
8
TODAY
Guest appearance
AgbriggAmble
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
168
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
277
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
818
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
866
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1251
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1474
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1211
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1620
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1320
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1556
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1733
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2071
Salford Close In On The Play O..
1687
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1718
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
2045


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!