Re: Your England Team : Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:39 pm  

I went over to the game at the weekend. I'm not sure what I expected but saw no discernible improvement from Steve McNamara's tenure. I also took exception to the remark by Bennett that the players need to learn to win. Well, someone ought to have pointed out to him that England defeated NZ only last year. It seemed to me that Bennett was getting in an excuse.

The game was pretty boring. England's Plan A consisted of - Five drives and a kick followed by Plan B - Five drives and a kick and if that didn't work revert to Plan A. If Brian Noble had come out with that game plan he'd have been laughed out of town as being too old fashioned.

The team was crying out for some imagination. Widdop and Gale are too similar to play together. We saw nothing of Gale. It desperately needed Williams or Brown to offer something different.

Sarginson seemed to be picked on the back of a match winning GF performance at FULL BACK! Percival is far and away the best English centre and can consider himself unlucky not to be picked ahead of both Sarge and the useless Watkins.

Lockers was badly missed. I'm afraid from what I have seen Burgess, once you have stripped away the hype, is just not in the same class as Lockers (but then I'm biased).

To beat the Aussies - Graham and Hill to do more game time. Brown or Williams in the halves. Get rid of Watkins. Clark to get more game time. Even then I'm not confident.

Re: Your England Team : Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:04 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I went over to the game at the weekend. I'm not sure what I expected but saw no discernible improvement from Steve McNamara's tenure. I also took exception to the remark by Bennett that the players need to learn to win. Well, someone ought to have pointed out to him that England defeated NZ only last year. It seemed to me that Bennett was getting in an excuse.

The team was crying out for some imagination. Widdop and Gale are too similar to play together. We saw nothing of Gale. It desperately needed Williams or Brown to offer something different.

A lack of skill and execution under pressure is the problem, not necessarily imagination, imo. Now if the players Bennett picks don't perform I hope he'll be quick to wield the axe. His problem is that England lacks a world-class 6 and 7 and currently he's trying to find the right pairing while still trying to win a tournament.

He's spot on when he says we need to learn to win - we had numerous opportunities to win on Saturday and failed to execute. I would lay the bulk of the blame at the feet of the players rather than Bennett.

The Kiwis sent over an extremely weak squad for last year's test series so you can't read anything into that. In fact, we still struggled to beat them and the rugby on offer during that series was dull as dishwater. The game at Olympic Stadium was one of the worst matches I've ever seen.

Re: Your England Team : Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:26 pm  

Madderzahatter wrote:

The Kiwis sent over an extremely weak squad for last year's test series so you can't read anything into that. In fact, we still struggled to beat them and the rugby on offer during that series was dull as dishwater. The game at Olympic Stadium was one of the worst matches I've ever seen.

Extremely weak squad is way wide of the mark imo. They were missing Tamaulolo, obviously a big miss but we were missing Sam and George Burgess in the pack so that evens it out.... basically we are talking Shaun Johnson, who is a huge player for them and the difference. Rest of that team is very similar to the one that took the park at the weekend. That team also has RTS in it -

FB 1 Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
RW 2 Jason Nightingale
RC 3 Jordan Kahu
LC 4 Dean Whare
LW 5 Shaun Kenny-Dowall
FE 6 Peta Hiku
HB 7 Tuimoala Lolohea
PR 8 Jesse Bromwich
HK 9 Issac Luke (Captain)
PR 10 Sam Moa
SR 11 Kevin Proctor
SR 12 Tohu Harris
LK 13 Adam Blair (Captain)
Substitutions:
BE 14 Kodi Nikorima
BE 15 Martin Taupau
BE 16 Ben Matulino
BE 17 Sio Siua Taukeiaho
Coach:
Stephen Kearney

Re: Your England Team : Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:01 am  

And Whare, for me certainly one of the best centres in the world.

Re: Your England Team : Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:26 am  

Teams are always going to be missing players in the end of year internationals. You only need to look at our season to see how lucky England and New Zealand are that they had as many fit players to choose from this year and last.

That was a strong NZ side last year and we did well to beat it. It's an even stronger NZ side this year and we came up short by a point in a game we should have won. I certainly wouldn't use that as a way of talking down last years series win.

For how dissapointing last week was I take comfort in the fact that it's another international against Oz or NZ that we've competed in until the last minute. It's a long while since either of them blew us away and that wasn't always the case! We've progressed as a side and will hopefully continue to do so. If we can keep sticking in games against those two we'll win one of the big trophies before long.

Re: Your England Team : Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:54 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Teams are always going to be missing players in the end of year internationals. You only need to look at our season to see how lucky England and New Zealand are that they had as many fit players to choose from this year and last.

That was a strong NZ side last year and we did well to beat it. It's an even stronger NZ side this year and we came up short by a point in a game we should have won. I certainly wouldn't use that as a way of talking down last years series win.

For how disapointing last week was I take comfort in the fact that it's another international against Oz or NZ that we've competed in until the last minute. It's a long while since either of them blew us away and that wasn't always the case! We've progressed as a side and will hopefully continue to do so. If we can keep sticking in games against those two we'll win one of the big trophies before long.

I would agree with this. I just got a bit miffed with the whole new era thing under Bennett. I thought that McNamara did a decent job and was unfairly treated. Allowing for the relative resources available to national coaches Bennett won't have had to change much. So to start talking about us needing to 'learn' how to win annoyed me. The same group of players won well enough last year.

I'm afraid that I'm in the camp that says we should have an English coach in charge. We have plenty of English coaches to choose from for what is a part time job. In the past recently retired players like Ellery have done it. I see no reason why the likes of Paul Sculthorpe or Kevin Sinfield perhaps alongside Brian Noble wouldn't do just as good a job. Personally I'd have stuck with McNamara. If we are successful under Bennett it will only be because we got an Aussie in (or so the argument will go).

Luke Gale is the selection that doesn't add up to me. He has achieved nothing in his career. He plays for a mid table club who bottle it any time they get near a big game. Maybe if Bennett had picked George Williams he might have had a 'winners' mentality out there.

Re: Your England Team : Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:51 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I would agree with this. I just got a bit miffed with the whole new era thing under Bennett. I thought that McNamara did a decent job and was unfairly treated. Allowing for the relative resources available to national coaches Bennett won't have had to change much. So to start talking about us needing to 'learn' how to win annoyed me. The same group of players won well enough last year.

I'm afraid that I'm in the camp that says we should have an English coach in charge. We have plenty of English coaches to choose from for what is a part time job. In the past recently retired players like Ellery have done it. I see no reason why the likes of Paul Sculthorpe or Kevin Sinfield perhaps alongside Brian Noble wouldn't do just as good a job. Personally I'd have stuck with McNamara. If we are successful under Bennett it will only be because we got an Aussie in (or so the argument will go).

Luke Gale is the selection that doesn't add up to me. He has achieved nothing in his career. He plays for a mid table club who bottle it any time they get near a big game. Maybe if Bennett had picked George Williams he might have had a 'winners' mentality out there.

His big failing from Saturday was his pre match interview with Tanya Arnold which was rude bodering on plain weird! A chance to bull the game up and he seemed like he didn't want to be there.

McNamara did well overall I thought but I did feel it was time for a change to see if a new coach could take us on to that next level of winning either the four nations or the World Cup. That is ultimately what Bennett will be judged on and we'll have to wait until the end of next years World Cup to really judge him.

I do believe Wane, McDermott or Powell could have done the job to a very good standard but what always worries me with that is the internal politics that come with it. You always get those people who will say they're picking their favourites from their clubs and rumours quickly surface of friction in the squad between different clubs players if things aren't going well.

Who knows, in three weeks time we may be sat here as Four Nations winners. We can but dream!

Re: Your England Team : Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:20 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

His big failing from Saturday was his pre match interview with Tanya Arnold which was rude bodering on plain weird! A chance to bull the game up and he seemed like he didn't want to be there.

McNamara did well overall I thought but I did feel it was time for a change to see if a new coach could take us on to that next level of winning either the four nations or the World Cup. That is ultimately what Bennett will be judged on and we'll have to wait until the end of next years World Cup to really judge him.

I do believe Wane, McDermott or Powell could have done the job to a very good standard but what always worries me with that is the internal politics that come with it. You always get those people who will say they're picking their favourites from their clubs and rumours quickly surface of friction in the squad between different clubs players if things aren't going well.

Who knows, in three weeks time we may be sat here as Four Nations winners. We can but dream!

After watching that interview and others on Saturday i got the distinct impression that Bennett has taken the England job just to put two fingers up to the Australian Rugby League management and others. He gives the impression he doesn't give a toss about English Rugby League either in his words or his body language .

Regards , EW

See you all in Coventry

Re: Your England Team : Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:43 pm  

I tend to agree, EW. Was talking about it on an Aussie forum the other day, and when I made a similar comments about Bennett's attitude, body language, etc, the comment came back, ah, it's Wayne Bennett, he's always been like that with the media. I pointed out that that might not be so bad in Australia, where he's revered as the Greatest Coach Evah, etc, but in England it's a different story, and any casual viewer seeing an interview excerpt on the TV news is just going to think, who's that pig-ignorant Aussie?

Re: Your England Team : Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:05 pm  

Bennett has said that Williams will definitely play.