Academy Under/Overachievers : Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:31 pm  

Who are your biggest academy under/overachievers? My view from the time I've been watching (2001 onwards):

Underachiever - Samy Kibula
There was so much hype around this lad because of his size and skillset. Some people on here were pencilling him in to imminently take over from Lockers or at least be a regular starter before he had even gone out on dual reg. Who would believe he would only play one first team game before leaving? Granted I could eat my words on this if he makes it at Warrington but he got nowhere near justifying the hype at Wigan.

Overachiever - Liam Marshall
Wasn't given a full time deal after finishing u19s, loaned out to Swinton, working as an accountant part time. Managing to break into the first team and nail down a starting spot when we have had Manfredi, Burgess and Davies on the books is some effort from that position. Pre - lockdown he was arguably the form winger in the league. Certainly proved me wrong, I didn't think he would make it at Wigan.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:03 pm  

Sam Powell overachieved for me. I always said he was never a wigan player as long as he had a hole in his backside and was only here because of his accent. TBF, I still say similar when he plays 7 as opposed to 9.

I always felt that Logan would go on to big things at the club too. Still a regular SL player though I guess.

Had high hopes for Kyle Shelford and Gabe Fell having seen them in the academy sides. I suppose Gabe Fell being behind Sam didn't help him out much, but I did expect more from Shelford.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:49 pm  

Rocky Hampshire for me - was hyped up more than George Williams at academy level and looked a world beater at that level.

Sadly he just didn’t apply it at first team and his attitude let him down in Waney’s eyes. He’s found a good spot at Wakefield now but could have been so much more.

Overachiever - Liam Marshall

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:14 am  

cherryandwhitedavid06 wrote:

Rocky Hampshire for me - was hyped up more than George Williams at academy level and looked a world beater at that level.

Sadly he just didn’t apply it at first team and his attitude let him down in Waney’s eyes. He’s found a good spot at Wakefield now but could have been so much more.

Overachiever - Liam Marshall

I can 100% confirm there is, has, and never will be an issue with Rocky’s attitude. For some reason there is also this rumour floating round Wakefield.

One of the most committed lads you would ever meet.

Wane didn’t like him, for different reasons, but his attitude should never be doubted.

In my time playing Academy Rugby Neil Baynes was an absolute freak. Had it all. Nearly impossible to stop due to his size, great hands and a good engine. Always thought he would have been a great player.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:17 am  

Grimmy wrote:

Who are your biggest academy under/overachievers? My view from the time I've been watching (2001 onwards):

Underachiever - Samy Kibula
There was so much hype around this lad because of his size and skillset. Some people on here were pencilling him in to imminently take over from Lockers or at least be a regular starter before he had even gone out on dual reg. Who would believe he would only play one first team game before leaving? Granted I could eat my words on this if he makes it at Warrington but he got nowhere near justifying the hype at Wigan.

Overachiever - Liam Marshall
Wasn't given a full time deal after finishing u19s, loaned out to Swinton, working as an accountant part time. Managing to break into the first team and nail down a starting spot when we have had Manfredi, Burgess and Davies on the books is some effort from that position. Pre - lockdown he was arguably the form winger in the league. Certainly proved me wrong, I didn't think he would make it at Wigan.

I agree with Marshall, I also didn’t think Manfredi would be as good as he has been.

Hampshire was the big let down for me but he’s still got time to turn it around.

Kibula was hyped because of his size and I think by a lot of people who actually never watched the academy. I always dampened expectations of him on this forum. I personally don’t think it’s a good thing to be so much bigger than everyone when you are a junior, it’s just makes things easier and when inevitably people catch up in size to you by the time you become fully grown you won’t be prepared for it, I think being smaller and having a growth spurt later works better. His best attributes are also his hands, he wasn’t a battering ram forward and to me looked to be lacking spite in his character on the pitch. His work rate in both attack and defence was questionable. I think the best option for him might to be to trim up and become a ball playing 13.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:47 am  

Kubula is a very good ball player and Warrington must see something in him which makes them think that he can do better under the coaching of Price. The only thing I found wrong with him at Wigan was his casual attitude and not putting himself about more for a lad of his size.

As for Manfredi, he has not in my opinion, been the same player since his injuries and perhaps a move away from the wing to another position might be the answer, especially as he was never a winger at Leigh Miners.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:07 am  

jonh wrote:

I can 100% confirm there is, has, and never will be an issue with Rocky’s attitude. For some reason there is also this rumour floating round Wakefield.

One of the most committed lads you would ever meet.

Wane didn’t like him, for different reasons, but his attitude should never be doubted.

In my time playing Academy Rugby Neil Baynes was an absolute freak. Had it all. Nearly impossible to stop due to his size, great hands and a good engine. Always thought he would have been a great player.

I always thought it was weird that Hampshire didn't get more opportunities and had the sense that maybe it was one that the club got wrong. There were rumours that he didn't want to play FB, no idea whether that's true or whether there was some other reason Wane didn't like him. I remember him being sent to Cas on loan to play in the halves then never playing in the halves once he got there.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:50 am  

CobraCraig wrote:

I agree with Marshall, I also didn’t think Manfredi would be as good as he has been.

Hampshire was the big let down for me but he’s still got time to turn it around.

Kibula was hyped because of his size and I think by a lot of people who actually never watched the academy. I always dampened expectations of him on this forum. I personally don’t think it’s a good thing to be so much bigger than everyone when you are a junior, it’s just makes things easier and when inevitably people catch up in size to you by the time you become fully grown you won’t be prepared for it, I think being smaller and having a growth spurt later works better. His best attributes are also his hands, he wasn’t a battering ram forward and to me looked to be lacking spite in his character on the pitch. His work rate in both attack and defence was questionable. I think the best option for him might to be to trim up and become a ball playing 13.

I have watched Kibula a number of times in the academy and i have to agree, he was missing that bit of dog in him especially for a guy of his size. He has brilliant hands though and he has the strength to back it up If he can bring that edge to his game aswell he could be a seriously good 13.

One thing that sticks out for me on Kibula is when i was watching an academy game vs. Leeds coached by Rob Burrow and they knew kibula was missing that bite to his game. We was stood near rob and he was calling out Kibula the whole game, calling out "bullseye 15" (can't remember the exact shirt number) to the Leeds players, basically saying target Kibula. If leeds knew to do this to him, other teams will aswell and it will get passed onto the first team to target him in particular and he will crack.

Saying that wigan nilled leeds and kibula actually had a good game throwing some brilliant passes, all the potential in the world and i hope it works out for him.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:15 am  

Over achiever for me is Sam Powell. No question in my mind. For years I’ve been on the “not good enough for Wigan” wagon but he has started to change my mind. Is he perfect? No but considering the amount of fans actively wanting him gone and for him to be where he is I think that’s some achievement.

Under achiever I’m going with Iain Thornley. He could have had such a better career here but something just didn’t seem to click with him and now he’s down in the Championship.

Re: Academy Under/Overachievers : Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:28 am  

If we’re talking people over achieving from academy to first team then I wouldn’t put Marshall or Powell in that category as both were fine academy players. I was amazed when we released Marshall tbh after watching him in a good few academy games. I was chuffed when things worked out as they did.

In recent times I’d probably put Partington on the list of players achieving more than I expected at first team level. He’s never been a dominant metre maker, so I wondered if he could progress but he’s bringing loads of other things to the party and I do think he’s improving that metre making side of his game.

As for an under achiever I think Thornley is a decent shout as is Hampshire. Another player I loved watching in the academy who has had a decent career but hasn’t done as much as I thought he could would be Matty Russell. I thought he could become a really top level fullback but his game was found out a little in the first team and he got shunted to the wing.