[PopTart]

Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 pm  

The Salford game is a nightmare to watch whether at the game, highlights or just reading the scoreline.

I don't however buy into the trend that all the players couldn't be bothered or that they are all rubbish or that the coach is rubbish.
I think the stats show us where the problems were quite clearly

Of the 13 tries scored
3 from kicks that could have been fielded, positional play from fullback was key to one, from wing for the others
1 was a well worked overlap that was just a good try
5 were direct one on one missed tackles by Minns
2 were through the gap left by Croft and Lineham
2 imho were referee errors.

When you look at the stats
Minns attempted 20 tackles, missing 5. All led directly to tries
Croft attempted 18 tackles and missed 7.
Most telling for me is Lineham. Attempted 1 tackle and missed it - yet 4 tries were scored on his wing

In the forwards, Butler did not carry the ball once!

However,
Whitbread made 28 tackles and missed none. 8 carries with an average gain of 7 and was unlucky not to score.
Batch made 25 tackles missing none
Pitts made 23 tackles missing none
Hood made 21 tackles missing none.
Fifita made 27 tackles and missed one.

Not everyone on the field was giving up the ghost. Some were working hard and being let down by others.
Clearly we didn't have much ball so the carries were low numbers but to me it was a mix of players trying hard and players just not good enough.
We are clearly not going to beat Wigan but if we can get Hall back and put Batch back to centre (and probably put Max at 1) I think it makes for a much better chance at magic.

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:33 pm  

PopTart wrote:

The Salford game is a nightmare to watch whether at the game, highlights or just reading the scoreline.

I don't however buy into the trend that all the players couldn't be bothered or that they are all rubbish or that the coach is rubbish.
I think the stats show us where the problems were quite clearly

Of the 13 tries scored
3 from kicks that could have been fielded, positional play from fullback was key to one, from wing for the others
1 was a well worked overlap that was just a good try
5 were direct one on one missed tackles by Minns
2 were through the gap left by Croft and Lineham
2 imho were referee errors.

When you look at the stats
Minns attempted 20 tackles, missing 5. All led directly to tries
Croft attempted 18 tackles and missed 7.
Most telling for me is Lineham. Attempted 1 tackle and missed it - yet 4 tries were scored on his wing

In the forwards, Butler did not carry the ball once!

However,
Whitbread made 28 tackles and missed none. 8 carries with an average gain of 7 and was unlucky not to score.
Batch made 25 tackles missing none
Pitts made 23 tackles missing none
Hood made 21 tackles missing none.
Fifita made 27 tackles and missed one.

Not everyone on the field was giving up the ghost. Some were working hard and being let down by others.
Clearly we didn't have much ball so the carries were low numbers but to me it was a mix of players trying hard and players just not good enough.
We are clearly not going to beat Wigan but if we can get Hall back and put Batch back to centre (and probably put Max at 1) I think it makes for a much better chance at magic.

That's the point so many miss, it's a team game and if one link fails it caused problems but when a large number of links break that is a disaster. Doesn't matter what the rest of the team do, when 3 or more players are malfunctioning then there is little anyone can do. The scoreline then depends on how quickly the opposition spot the problem, Salford were pretty quick on the uptake.

It also works the other way around, when all the players are playing at the top of their game, even the mediocre ones, the team becomes almost unbeatable.

I'm not shocked by Minns who I just don't get, or Gaskel who is simply blown and Lineman who has only played well once against Warrington and is taking the mick, I'd love to see his missed tackles for the season.

The only one who shocked me is Croft who I've always rated, but I suppose he was rusty and unlucky to be paired with Lineham. I'll forgive him.

The other three shouldn't play for the club ever again. I don't think Gaskell is taking the mick I just think he's shot.

What though really worries me is that Poching must see the same stats as you and I suspect they read very much the same in other games, so why is he picking these players? Baffles me.

The only theory I have is either Poching is a poor coach or that he knows exactly where we will be playing our RL next year. If it's the latter then a bit like the Soviets in WW2 he's throwing his men against the enemy and accepting losses to see who can and can't cope. It's a massive long shot but it's the best I have.

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:35 pm  

PopTart wrote:

The Salford game is a nightmare to watch whether at the game, highlights or just reading the scoreline.

I don't however buy into the trend that all the players couldn't be bothered or that they are all rubbish or that the coach is rubbish.
I think the stats show us where the problems were quite clearly

Of the 13 tries scored
3 from kicks that could have been fielded, positional play from fullback was key to one, from wing for the others
1 was a well worked overlap that was just a good try
5 were direct one on one missed tackles by Minns
2 were through the gap left by Croft and Lineham
2 imho were referee errors.

When you look at the stats
Minns attempted 20 tackles, missing 5. All led directly to tries
Croft attempted 18 tackles and missed 7.
Most telling for me is Lineham. Attempted 1 tackle and missed it - yet 4 tries were scored on his wing

In the forwards, Butler did not carry the ball once!

However,
Whitbread made 28 tackles and missed none. 8 carries with an average gain of 7 and was unlucky not to score.
Batch made 25 tackles missing none
Pitts made 23 tackles missing none
Hood made 21 tackles missing none.
Fifita made 27 tackles and missed one.

Not everyone on the field was giving up the ghost. Some were working hard and being let down by others.
Clearly we didn't have much ball so the carries were low numbers but to me it was a mix of players trying hard and players just not good enough.
We are clearly not going to beat Wigan but if we can get Hall back and put Batch back to centre (and probably put Max at 1) I think it makes for a much better chance at magic.

Dont want to bad name players but its obvious what the biggest problem was yesterday going on that so yes batch back to centre hopefully hall fit and max in fb and for me kyke evans onto wing who has been outstanding for the reserves

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:37 pm  

Luppylad wrote:

Dont want to bad name players but its obvious what the biggest problem was yesterday going on that so yes batch back to centre hopefully hall fit and max in fb and for me kyke evans onto wing who has been outstanding for the reserves

Yep, I have to admit I'm amazed he hasn't had a run. Murphy has been outstanding but Lineham has managed one half decent effort so I can't see whats stopping him. It's not like the bloke is some rookie either, he's plenty of experience to won't be overawed.

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:11 pm  

Jeez...some shocking stats there (good work PT) which clearly show where it all went pear-shaped yesterday and the obvious fix is as per Luppy's solution (assuming those players are fit ??).
Do we know why Hall didn't play ??

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:19 pm  

FIL wrote:

Jeez...some shocking stats there (good work PT) which clearly show where it all went pear-shaped yesterday and the obvious fix is as per Luppy's solution (assuming those players are fit ??).
Do we know why Hall didn't play ??

My guess is he needed resting. He's pretty young so two weeks off will have done him some good. Again I have a nagging feeling that all clubs know exactly where they will be next year so are happy to experiment unless they have a real top six chance, which we don't. It's just a feeling I have, I don't have any inside info.

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:38 pm  

vastman wrote:

My guess is he needed resting. He's pretty young so two weeks off will have done him some good. Again I have a nagging feeling that all clubs know exactly where they will be next year so are happy to experiment unless they have a real top six chance, which we don't. It's just a feeling I have, I don't have any inside info.

Can you explain what you are eluding to please?

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:40 pm  

They are really damning stats from our back line, especially the Minns ones which resulted in 5 tries. Even the best miss tackles, Dane Gagai has missed 18 tackles in the first 2 SOO games, though he’s up against some of the best on the planet. Also he has quality to cover him on the inside and out, we don’t. You simply can’t play 2 lads, one who hadn’t played in 2 years at this level, and Minns who unfortunately isn’t SL standard, it’s not fair on them or their team mates. Think it just goes to show what a top job Lyne and Hall do

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:52 pm  

Stats pretty much confirm my impression at the game at one point following a missed one on one by minns thought Pitt’s was going to deliver some natural justice !

Personally think we have answered the question re minns and club should terminate his contract or send him on loan.

Croft there is a big question mark about

You’ve only to look at Lineham to question wether he’s actually a full time professional sports man

Gaskell is cover would be very worried if he’s a starter next year , we really don’t need someone to run at the side of opposition players on the way to the line.

Our view on the day was down the middle we were pretty solid, but with exception of miller and Murphy rest of backs would have been better left in dressing room

Re: Stats don't lie : Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:54 pm  

Plenty of those missed tackles I saw the player actually had contact with the Salford player but just fell off. But to me the criminal stats are from Lineham as he did not even get to make contact. Also did you notice his total lack of pace compared to the Salford backs.
I have heard Lineham is a bit of a practical joker and general fool about. His efforts seem to verify that as he certainly has made a fool of our club. Never mind he will have the last laugh as he was handed a 3 year deal.