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Roy Francis Article Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:07 pm  

User avatarthe artist wrote:
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Excellent piece on the BBC website about Roy Francis and his pioneering ways in British sport, especially during his time coaching at Hull and Leeds. It also highlights some shocking aspects of racism that were sadly commonplace back then. Paints the city of Hull in a good light as being very accepting at the times when racial tensions were brewing up elsewhere. Clearly he should have won more international caps and would have done if it wasn't for the colour of his skin. Also some great old photos
A shame his story has not reached more people, perhaps this article will help. well worth a read

Read it here
The referee's indecision is final
Re: Roy Francis Article Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:18 pm  
rollin thunder Bronze RLFANS Member
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the artist wrote:
Excellent piece on the BBC website about Roy Francis and his pioneering ways in British sport, especially during his time coaching at Hull and Leeds. It also highlights some shocking aspects of racism that were sadly commonplace back then. Paints the city of Hull in a good light as being very accepting at the times when racial tensions were brewing up elsewhere. Clearly he should have won more international caps and would have done if it wasn't for the colour of his skin. Also some great old photos
A shame his story has not reached more people, perhaps this article will help. well worth a read

Read it here

Yes Excellent article.

Might be a bit Pc woke for some on here, which illustrates why still more work to be done.
Re: Roy Francis Article Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:51 pm  

User avatarZuider wrote:
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Have to disagree with you there. What it proves is that rugby league looks at talent rather than skin colour, and so it should.
BBC trying to make a woke issue out of something that isn't there. The piece should be about Roy Francis being ahead of his time as a coach, not that he was the first black coach.
Re: Roy Francis Article Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:08 pm  
rollin thunder Bronze RLFANS Member
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Zuider wrote:
Have to disagree with you there. What it proves is that rugby league looks at talent rather than skin colour, and so it should.
BBC trying to make a woke issue out of something that isn't there. The piece should be about Roy Francis being ahead of his time as a coach, not that he was the first black coach.

Maybe in Uk it does, treated appallingly in Australia,
BBC not making a woke issue, its a Black history month story and questions why Roy has been over looked on the Greatest black Britons list.
Re: Roy Francis Article Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:43 pm  

shinymcshine wrote:
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Zuider wrote:
Have to disagree with you there. What it proves is that rugby league looks at talent rather than skin colour, and so it should.
BBC trying to make a woke issue out of something that isn't there. The piece should be about Roy Francis being ahead of his time as a coach, not that he was the first black coach.


I found there was a reasonable amount of focus given in the article to the progressive coaching style Roy brought the the game.
Re: Roy Francis Article Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 pm  

kobashi wrote:
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Zuider wrote:
Have to disagree with you there. What it proves is that rugby league looks at talent rather than skin colour, and so it should.
BBC trying to make a woke issue out of something that isn't there. The piece should be about Roy Francis being ahead of his time as a coach, not that he was the first black coach.


So the fact that Australia still had a colour bar is not an issue. Or how about the South African full back who couldn't accept a black man was not carrying his bags. Jeez the article managed to explain what a great coach he was while at the same time make people aware of the struggles a black man in that era had to go through. The point about Roy Francis hoping his granddaughter looked white so she wouldn't have to go through the trouble he did is very sad.
Re: Roy Francis Article Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:08 pm  
48756c6c20 524c4643 User avatar
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Zuider wrote:
Have to disagree with you there. What it proves is that rugby league looks at talent rather than skin colour, and so it should.
BBC trying to make a woke issue out of something that isn't there. The piece should be about Roy Francis being ahead of his time as a coach, not that he was the first black coach.

I disagree with you there, just because RL allowed some black players to be involved in the sport doesn't mean they were ever 'inclusive' or diverse as some have claimed and it was rare for black players to play as it is now. You had to be far and away better than a white man to get a look in, even Francis was forced away from the international scene because of his skin colour so that proves skin colour DID matter in RL!
Black players were employed solely on the basis that it made the chairmen money by winning games and getting bigger crowds through the gates, it was more Northern business savvy than anything to do with acceptance.

At last count there were 25 players who identified as BAME within RL top echelon, in 2000 that was 20, it hardly shouts to a sport being what some people claim it to be. Personally I don't really care how many of whatever background play, there's lots of reasons why people from certain backgrounds might not play or want to participate in x. And if people want to participate and achieve they can, even BAME sportspeople state this. https://www.2wheelchick.cc/2019/01/wome ... is-it.html
But making claims RL was ahead of the game with regards inclusivity because of some 'firsts' is just a whole pile of dung
Re: Roy Francis Article Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:42 pm  

kobashi wrote:
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48756c6c20 524c4643 wrote:
I disagree with you there, just because RL allowed some black players to be involved in the sport doesn't mean they were ever 'inclusive' or diverse as some have claimed and it was rare for black players to play as it is now. You had to be far and away better than a white man to get a look in, even Francis was forced away from the international scene because of his skin colour so that proves skin colour DID matter in RL!
Black players were employed solely on the basis that it made the chairmen money by winning games and getting bigger crowds through the gates, it was more Northern business savvy than anything to do with acceptance.

At last count there were 25 players who identified as BAME within RL top echelon, in 2000 that was 20, it hardly shouts to a sport being what some people claim it to be. Personally I don't really care how many of whatever background play, there's lots of reasons why people from certain backgrounds might not play or want to participate in x. And if people want to participate and achieve they can, even BAME sportspeople state this. https://www.2wheelchick.cc/2019/01/wome ... is-it.html
But making claims RL was ahead of the game with regards inclusivity because of some 'firsts' is just a whole pile of dung


Don't forget how the GB touring party went to apartied South Africa leaving poor Billy Boston to go back home to the UK on his own. That is a stain on rugby league in this country. Once they were informed how Billy Boston would be treated in South Africa the squad and management should have called the whole damn thing off. That example is proof the sport wasn't as inclusive as people claim even though it was miles ahead of other sports in the UK.
Re: Roy Francis Article Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:45 pm  

puroresu_boy wrote:
puroresu_boy Cheeky half-back
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48756c6c20 524c4643 wrote:
I disagree with you there, just because RL allowed some black players to be involved in the sport doesn't mean they were ever 'inclusive' or diverse as some have claimed and it was rare for black players to play as it is now. You had to be far and away better than a white man to get a look in, even Francis was forced away from the international scene because of his skin colour so that proves skin colour DID matter in RL!
Black players were employed solely on the basis that it made the chairmen money by winning games and getting bigger crowds through the gates, it was more Northern business savvy than anything to do with acceptance.

At last count there were 25 players who identified as BAME within RL top echelon, in 2000 that was 20, it hardly shouts to a sport being what some people claim it to be. Personally I don't really care how many of whatever background play, there's lots of reasons why people from certain backgrounds might not play or want to participate in x. And if people want to participate and achieve they can, even BAME sportspeople state this. https://www.2wheelchick.cc/2019/01/wome ... is-it.html
But making claims RL was ahead of the game with regards inclusivity because of some 'firsts' is just a whole pile of dung


Exactly. Many a sport can lay claim to having black athletes competing 100 years ago but that doesn't mean they were inclusive. It just means they were good for business.

Boxing had a black world champions in the early 1900's but that was far from a sport that black athletes had equality.
Re: Roy Francis Article Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:30 pm  

User avatarthe artist wrote:
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kobashi wrote:
So the fact that Australia still had a colour bar is not an issue. Or how about the South African full back who couldn't accept a black man was not carrying his bags. Jeez the article managed to explain what a great coach he was while at the same time make people aware of the struggles a black man in that era had to go through. The point about Roy Francis hoping his granddaughter looked white so she wouldn't have to go through the trouble he did is very sad.


very sad indeed, i don't know if you have seen the excellent iplayer programme on the welsh union players who have gone to league over the years, but in it you can see its not just Australia at that time - the welsh RU did not pick black players either - there's a couple of hard hitting interviews in that programme with one of the former players in tears over it even now, hence the likes of francis, boston and sullivan all coming north to league
The referee's indecision is final

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