Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel to Toulouse : Tue Jun 25, 2024 5:42 am  

Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel to Toulouse England Head Coach Shaun Wane has named a 20-strong squad ahead of Saturday's mid-season international against France in Toulouse. And several new faces are included, among them Castleford Tigers centre Sam Wood, Wigan Warriors hooker Brad O'Neill, Hull KR loose forward Elliot Minchella, St Helens prop George Delaney, Huddersfield Giants forward Oliver Wilson and Leeds Rhinos forward James McDonnell. Brad O'Neill has been almost ever-present for the Wigan over the last two years, playing an integral role in the Warriors' successful pursuit of all four available trophies – the Betfred Super League, League Leaders' Shield, Betfred Challenge Cup and World Club Challenge. READ MORE ON THIS STORY...

Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel to Toulouse England Head Coach Shaun Wane has named a 20-strong squad ahead of Saturday's mid-season international against France in Toulouse. And several new faces are included, among them Castleford Tigers centre Sam Wood, Wigan Warriors hooker Brad O'Neill, Hull KR loose forward Elliot Minchella, St Helens prop George Delaney, Huddersfield Giants forward Oliver Wilson and Leeds Rhinos forward James McDonnell. Brad O'Neill has been almost ever-present for the Wigan over the last two years, playing an integral role in the Warriors' successful pursuit of all four available trophies – the Betfred Super League, League Leaders' Shield, Betfred Challenge Cup and World Club Challenge. READ MORE ON THIS STORY...

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 6:12 am  

Super League form doesn't extend to the leading try scorer and the best winger at the minute.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:16 am  

Jason65 wrote:

Super League form doesn't extend to the leading try scorer and the best winger at the minute.

Had this debate of Facebook a while bank and whilst I love Marshal I just don’t see him as an international winger when it comes to playing the top tier nations.

He is very effective at what he does in SL but against the Aussies and Kiwis I just feel his style won’t transfer well and that is probably why he is missing out on these opportunities as Wane tries to develop a team in mind for the World Cup.

It’s tough on him as like you say his form has earned it but sometimes style is more important and whilst he wins contact in SL and would obviously against the lesser nations him carrying into the guts of the Aussie/Kiwis/Samoans etc I don’t think he wins contact nearly as often and doesn’t get us on the front foot which is what he is so good at for us in SL.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:16 am  

Not sure what I think about the squad and the way it has been picked. Marshall & Ashton would be my 2 wingers if we were going into a proper Test game based on form alone (without the NRL contingent), with Johnston & Handley close behind.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:23 am  

jonh wrote:

He is very effective at what he does in SL but against the Aussies and Kiwis I just feel his style won’t transfer well and that is probably why he is missing out on these opportunities as Wane tries to develop a team in mind for the World Cup.

Trying to go toe-to-toe and do it in the same style as the Aussies categorically won't work for England in my opinion. If we've to have any chance of beating the top sides (and that could me Tonga, Samoa, Aus, or NZ) in the big competitions we need to do it our own way, not try to simulate what those sides do based around the NRL style and be better than them at it. Game 3 against Tonga in the series last year was a prime example - games 1 and 2 were close where we played it their way. Shackles were off a bit in game 3 (plus Willams was back) and we absolutely dusted them playing a different style of rugby.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:29 am  

ralvag wrote:

Trying to go toe-to-toe and do it in the same style as the Aussies categorically won't work for England in my opinion. If we've to have any chance of beating the top sides (and that could me Tonga, Samoa, Aus, or NZ) in the big competitions we need to do it our own way, not try to simulate what those sides do based around the NRL style and be better than them at it. Game 3 against Tonga in the series last year was a prime example - games 1 and 2 were close where we played it their way. Shackles were off a bit in game 3 (plus Willams was back) and we absolutely dusted them playing a different style of rugby.

I agree with that, which is probably why Marshy misses out.

I feel for the lad as he’s a fantastic SL player.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:42 am  

jonh wrote:

Had this debate of Facebook a while bank and whilst I love Marshal I just don’t see him as an international winger when it comes to playing the top tier nations.

He is very effective at what he does in SL but against the Aussies and Kiwis I just feel his style won’t transfer well and that is probably why he is missing out on these opportunities as Wane tries to develop a team in mind for the World Cup.

It’s tough on him as like you say his form has earned it but sometimes style is more important and whilst he wins contact in SL and would obviously against the lesser nations him carrying into the guts of the Aussie/Kiwis/Samoans etc I don’t think he wins contact nearly as often and doesn’t get us on the front foot which is what he is so good at for us in SL.

At the risk of starting another argument with you he ran for 144 metres against Penrith. It's nuts to write him off against Aussie opposition when he consistently does it against the best in Superleague and has done it against the best the Aussies have to offer too when given the chance. At what point do facts rather than perception come into play? He's equally, or even more, effective as any of the incumbents at club level and has consistently out performed Tommy Makinson in recent years who has had a pretty good international career, wouldn't you say?

Top finisher, consistent try scorer with pace to burn and among the best when bringing the ball out of yardage. Sounds like the ideal formula for a winger if you ask me!

Unlucky to not get picked.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:58 am  

Part of the challenge is balancing form with style of play and having consistency in the squad.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:09 am  

nathan_rugby wrote:

Part of the challenge is balancing form with style of play and having consistency in the squad.

No doubt and I've no issue with the players chosen. It's the suggestion that Marshall couldn't cut it at international level that I take issue with. Based on what exactly?

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:13 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

At the risk of starting another argument with you he ran for 144 metres against Penrith. It's nuts to write him off against Aussie opposition when he consistently does it against the best in Superleague and has done it against the best the Aussies have to offer too when given the chance. At what point do facts rather than perception come into play? He's equally, or even more, effective as any of the incumbents at club level and has consistently out performed Tommy Makinson in recent years who has had a pretty good international career, wouldn't you say?

Top finisher, consistent try scorer with pace to burn and among the best when bringing the ball out of yardage. Sounds like the ideal formula for a winger if you ask me!

Unlucky to not get picked.

It’s not an argument it’s a debate, surely that’s what this is all about.

I would expect Marshys stats to be high against Penrith as we were pretty much on the pack foot for the entire match with them applying lots of pressure with the long kicking game pinning us in our half.

I know they don’t publish stats like this but the coaches will have them in regard post contact metres and play the ball time. Was listening to a podcast possibly Bloke in a Bar and the PTB speed on the night was nearly 4 seconds compared to just over 2 in the NRL meaning there was plenty of laying on from both sides to be fair and I’m not sure we get that luxury at international level.

Dom Young is nailed on for one wing and I’d say it’s a 3 horse race for the other between Johnston, Handley and Ashton as I think we will go for athleticism and compared to others I think Marshy is less naturally athletic than those lads.

Looking at the opposition generally the outside backs are also natural athletes, Coates, Tuilagi, Turbo, Mitchell, Addo Carr etc and all quite a bit taller than Marshy too which will make him a target.

There were comments on social media about Robinson and indeed To’o in regards height but I’d say these guys had outstanding traits too particularly around athleticism that Marshy doesn’t.

I’m his biggest fan in SL I think both him and Miski are a big part of our success as whilst yes they do finish well their main strength is their carries out of our 30 and getting a quick PTB to get us on the front foot. Against the tier 1 sides I don’t think they will be nearly as effective at doing that because they are bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic than SL players.

There have been plenty of good SL players who don’t make an impact on the international stage I’d say Sinfield was one too who was a great SL player, one of the best but his lack of athleticism saw him not be able to make anywhere near the same impact for the national team.

If it were the choice of 1 coach you could maybe understand it however various coaches have overlooked him now including 1 regarded as a coaching legend and indeed now a man that has coached him at club level.